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the charges, miranda rights, the public safety exemption, where are we right now on that issue? >> well, the normal rule is that when someone's irsed, they're advised of their rights. you have the right to remain silent. anything you say can be used against you. you have the right to a lawyer. if you can't afford one it will be provided, that sort of thing. if police don't give that warning then they cannot use any statements of the defendant in court. the exception to that is called the public safety exception. it's been extended by judges to terrorism cases. and the idea is that if you need information quickly to preserve public safety, you can ask those questions and still use the responses in court. but that public safety exception rule is limited. it only applies for several hours after fill in the blank. we assume after questioning starts rather than after arrest. probably no more than a day, day and a half. >> where do you come up with that? pete, let me interrupt you there. who has come up with what is the time? is it just, you know it when you see it? >> in terms of the time li
to the miranda rule. they've not advised him of his rights. so they can only ask about potential threats to public safety. were there other conspirators, other bombs out there, any reason to believe that public safety is in any way jeopardized. >> pete, one of the persons cited in terms of this idea that there may have been more violent plans on order at the hands of the brothers is this person who was hijacked by the brothers on thursday night. and the driver of a mercedes suv. we know that he's been cooperating with police. is there anything else that we know about his involvement in all of this? >> yeah, the business about new york is very iffy, frankly. i've emailed briefly with this person. he claims that he escaped with they stopped at a gasoline station. but he's also told the police that he was told by these two men, that they were the marathon bombers. but that they were not going to kill him because he was not an american. what he told the police was, that he thought they were speaking arabic. that's probably not the case, they were probably speaking russian or some dialect. an
't -- he shouldn't be mirandaized right away. i know you agree with them. >> i think the miranda issue is an easier issue. he doesn't have to be mar lindaized for a lot of reason. first of all, they have enough evidence to convict him without getting a confession from him. all miranda gets you is a confession you can use in court. you can use that information for everything else. remember, he confessed already to the guy they kidnapped. the guy he kidnapped says, these two guys told us, we did the bombing. they got great witness and they got a great confession. maybe even better than a law enforcement confession where you can claim it was forced out of you. they gave a upon takenious confession -- spontaneous confession. >> bob wants to get in here. so then why did they need to make that statement? i'm trying to figure out why they made that statement? >> i don't know exactly why they made it. maybe because they got so much criticism -- remember the christmas morning bomber that they mirandaized right away, lost the opportunity to get information from him? so i think maybe they were pl
authorities say he does not need to be read his miranda rights. >> right. first of all, let's just remember he may be in no physical condition to answer questions with or without miranda warnings. so his physical condition is the great unknown here which may render this whole dispute about miranda moot. let's assume that he is in a condition to answer questions. usually when someone is arrested, they get miranda warnings, and then they is a choice of whether to answer questions or not. here the government has said when there is an imminent danger to public safety, they can question without miranda warnings. that has traditionally or usually been interpreted to mean a future danger to public safety. the so-called ticking time bomb. tell us what's going to happen in the future, and we're not going to worry about miranda. what makes this an unusual invocation of the public safety exception is that the government is saying there is no more danger. there is no further conspirator out there. the government's position may be somewhat internally contradictory. that's something to keep an eye on as thi
, this investigation still very much continuing. justice departments saying the suspect will not be read his miranda rights. they are invoking the public safety exception. it's allowed in cases of immediate danger. meanwhile mccain and lindsay graham said dzhokhar tsarnaev should be treated as a potential enemy combatant. they said now that the suspect is in custody is the last thing we should want is for him to remain silent. under a law of war we can hold the suspect to a enemy combatment not entitled to miranda warnings or the appointment of counsel. the older brother, he was killed on friday, and they investigated him at the request of a foreign government, and they did not find any ties to terrorism. and we are joined from london by a counterterrorism expert, and mike sullivan here is a former acting director of the bureau of tobacco, firearms and explosives. let's start with you in london, will. the fbi talked to this man in 2011. it does beg the question, did they miss something when they talked to tamerlan tsarnaev? >> well, it's always very difficult to say. however, having said that, if yo
him before he receives miranda warning is the right thing to do. a short time ago, the aclu put out a statement saying every defendant is entitled to defend miranda lights. five lawmakers want him treated as an enemy combatant. 53 people remain in boston hospitals today, three in critical condition, including a 7-year-old girl. nbc news national investigative correspondent michaels i cough is in boston, ron allen outside boston's beth israel medical center where the suspect and many of the victims are being kept and kristen we willinger at the white house, let's get to the latest on investigation. for that, we turn to michaels i cough, again, in boston. what is the fbi focusing on today and moving forward? >> reporter: federal prosecutors are focusing on drafting a criminal complaint we could see as early as this afternoon, detailing the criminal charges against him supported by an affidavit from an fbi agent that would lay out some details of the plot. not all of them but could provide crucial new information for us about what tsarnaev actually did and raise and shed some light on
understand if he is indeed conscious and does survive before reading him miranda rights; is that correct? >> i believe molly line will be talking about that a little bit as well. there is a loophole. there is a way they don't have to. so he was not read his miranda rights to allow to ask questions of him. we don't know if questions have been asked. they may have asked questions of him when he was under the situation he was in, of course being pretty seriously injured. they do believe he is going to make it. that was something, not only important for them to do that because that is what we do in this society but important because of this investigation. last night we were told he was being brought here for treatment. we weren't too far behind the ambulance. as you made your way through boston, you could see many of the businesses reopened. you saw restaurants and bars reopened. at one point there was a small college and 500 students had gone into the streets and blocked off all four lanes cheering, holding signs and as first responders and medical teams came through that had nothing to do
. should the terrorists in the boston marathon have the miranda rights? of course. should it affect immigration bills and gun bills we'll discuss all that have tonight. before we get to any of that we've got another terrorist attack, but luckily this time it was averted. it was in canada, and we worked together with the canadian authorities. and here is the announcement that it has been aevaluatorred. >> the rmcp confirmed that there was a al-qaida-supported attack. had this plot been carried out it would have resulted in innocent people being killed or seriously injured. >> cenk: now one of the things said about this attack is really puzzling. quote, the two men had direction and guidance from al-qaeda elements located in iran. now that makes no assistance because al-qaeda and sunni eight each other. that's like there was guidance go the united states. at least they made sure that it wasn't carried out no matter where they're from. of course, we're going to talk about boston and the rights associated withdhozvt dhozahar tsarnaev. but in order for me to do that i need to bring in my
before they read miranda rights. this would have falln in the category you can't use this in court but this is what we needed to know if it was more substantive or is that unclear? >> it's not clear whether he provided this information before or after he was read his miranda rights. i don't know. . i know, this is according to a government source, what he has told them in the preliminary investigations. >> jake tapper, thank you very much. obviously significant information there. new information from jake tapper. i want to bring in our panel live tonight. seth jones associate director of the security defense policy center at the rand corporation. former member of the joint terrorism task force and jeffrey toobin our legal analyst. jake is saying -- this is significant in terms of the information in this. but obviously a crucial question out there which is was it obtained before or after those miranda rights were read? >> the irony here is what he is saying is not particularly helpful to him. what would be helpful to him is if he had a conspiracy he could make the government to make
. >> let's talk about the issue a lot of people have been talking about. not everybody, but some. miranda rights. we've watched enough detective shows no know, police shows, they give miranda rights almost like blah, blah, blah, blah, blah. it's done. why do you think that's an issue? now we just got the word as we went on the air tonight the defendant here, the suspect, i guess he's a defendant now, has been given his miranda rights. >> this is truly something of an urban legend. people like to watch shows where a criminal goes free because he wasn't given miranda rights. that's extremely rare. i do criminal defense work. i can tell you, the most you can hope for in a miranda case is one or two statements will not make it into court. it's rare the whole case falls out unless everything -- >> so it's not the poison fruit thing? >> there is a poison fruit provision, standard. but it's very rare for it to pollute an entire case. >> let me ask you practically, why don't the law enforcement officials, the federal officials up there who have him in custody at the hospital, why didn't they just
enforcement. we know that doesn't quite work for several reasons. one, there is an exception in the miranda rights. when a suspect is read their rights by the police, we're talking about a miranda warning. there is a provision that allows in case law that allows for law enforcement to wait if they think there is a national security threat or a danger to the public until they've talked to the person and established there isn't a danger to the public or gotten the information they need. then they can read the miranda rights. that's what the fbi has done in this case. that's what they did in the new york time square bomber. that worked quite well. they talk to him for a while before they read him his rights. then they read him his rights. he kept and he provided very valuable information. we know that the traditional civilian court system founded by the founding fathers can work in this situation. >> let me ask you a couple questions. if the russian government was so concerned about tamerlan as to alert our fbi and our government, and warrant an investigation of him, why are we so sure that dz
at first without reading him his miranda rights. when do you expect charges to be filed? >> charges could come as early today. terror charges that could bring the death penalty. he won't be read his miranda rights. they're going to use the public safety can exception. they're taking this extraordinary step because there could be an imminent threat still out there. i just got off the phone, george, with a senior law enforcement, of deep concern of ammunition, guns and working bombs these men had. they were so disciplined. >> any indication of another sleeper cell? >> right now, no evidence of a broader plot involving more people here, but law enforcement officials say they can't take that chance. the investigation is full tilt to find that out. >> okay, pierre, thanks very much. let's get more on this from our team of analysis from our team, dan abrams, brad garrett and richard clarke. dan, let me begin with you. the question about the questioning of the witness, at least at first he will not be read his miranda rights. >> that's right. you heard pierre talk about this public safety except
can he be questioned before the public safety runs out, most say 48 hours. once under miranda he is under no obligation to cooperate with authorities. >> remember the number one goal right here is to get inside his head and get whatever intelligence he has with any operatives in the united states to protect the homeland and protect americans inside the united states. >> reporter: speaking this morning on fox news, former u.s. attorney general alberto gonzales suggested being mirandized will not necessarily close off the flow of information from tsnaraev. >> we have something we can give him which is his life. for example, taking the death penalty off the i believe at that. there is possible some kind of deal would be made where he provides information and in exchange for that the government gives him some kind of a plea agreement. >> reporter: gonzalez suspects what may be happening now is in the obama administration is a quote, interagency scrum where some are pushing for a quick mirandizing. others may be advocating a delay so as much information as possible can be garnered, ma
miranda rights and there is it a safety exception that allows you 48 hour to see if there is any bombs that may be connected with the attack. under the law of war, an enemy combatant and someone who takes up arms against this country, including an american citizen can be held for intelligence purposes without a lawyer and miranda warningings. the best way to get information from the suspect is hold him as an enemy combatant. it a terrorist attack and not a common crime. in 30 days he would be presented before a federal judge and the judge could review the case that the government has. i am urging this administration, please do not lawyer him up tomorrow night. you have under our statutes and supreme court cases,le authority to hold him as an enemy combatant ting gather intelligence about what is coming our way in the future. >> there is great relief in boston today but a lot of people are concern body what might be to come whether it is it inspired by the actions or a connection, we really don't know the answer to that question yet, do we senator? >> it is impossible between now and to
but in the beginning he will not be given the usual miranda warning about the right to remain silent. instead, the government will invoke a rule that allows questioning a suspect without giving advice of rights. >> there is a public safety exemption in cases of national security and potential charges involving acts of terrorism and so the government has that opportunity right now. >> reporter: the government invoked the same rule in the case of the so-called underwear bomber. as in his case it allows questioning to learn of any potential plots or accomplices that could present a continuing threat. >> the first questions the fbi will focus on are specific threats that he might be aware of likely are there any other improvised explosive devices, other people working in the network. the sorts of things that go directly to whether or not there's a continuing threat to public safety. >> reporter: he'll face charges brought by the justice department because terrorism is a federal crime with a trial in a regular civilian court. and as in other high profile terrorism cases, some republicans in congre
be read his miranda rights. moving past the politics of it because it seems to get a little poe lit kal, as a former member of fbi how does whether or not the suspect is read his miranda rights influence or impact your investigation? >> it really becomes irrelevant. good report-based interviewers and interrogators who are the ones most effective. the fbi doesn't do that because we're nice. we do that because it worked. in reported based interviewers miranda they can read that and continue. it is not a major obstacle. it is almost irrelevant. jenna: really? we're hearing a it is a major issue whether we get to the bottom of this investigation. so what should we consider as we continue to hear the debate ongoing over the next several days? >> it doesn't, it really doesn't make that much difference to the interviewers and especially the particular group of profile he is -- profilers they developed at quantico, at the fbi academy. this is not terribly relevant. they can sit down with the people. they can interview them. they look for behavioral cues. they look for a way to establish a relat
be charged as early as today. investigators have not read him his miranda rights unwhat they call the public safety exception clause. so they may use any information he reveals as evidence in court. let's bring in christopher tritico, he defended the oklahoma city bomber, timothy mcveigh. christopher, thanks very much for coming in. he is a u.s. citizen. he was -- he received his naturalized citizenship last september 11th, of all dates. he's obviously in a hospital. crime was committed in the united states. if they don't read him his miranda rights right away, you okay with that? >> well, look. i think the public safety exception is being greatly and overly expanded in this instance. the public safety exception as the supreme court laid out is for an instance when an officer walks up on a situation and sees an empty holster and says where's your gun. that's to prevent an imminent threat from happening right then. what they are doing now is really expanding that public safety exception to say really the fifth amendment applies when they say it does and i don't think the supreme court is goin
shouldn't be mirandaized right away. i know you agree with them. >> i think the miranda issue is an easier issue. he doesn't have to be mar lindaized for a lot of reason. first of all, they have enough evidence to convict him without getting a confession from him. all miranda gets you is a confession you can use in court. you can use that information for everything else. remember, he confessed already to the guy they kidnapped. the guy he kidnapped says, these two guys told us, we did the bombing. they got great witness and they got a great confession. maybe even better than a law enforcement confession where you can claim it was forced out of you. they gave a upon takenious confession -- spontaneous confession. >> bob wants to get in here. so then why did they need to make that statement? i'm trying to figure out why they made that statement? >> i don't know exactly why they made it. maybe because they got so much criticism -- remember the christmas morning bomber that they mirandaized right away, lost the opportunity to get information from him? so i think maybe they were playing defense
is remote. >> right. you know, judge, a lot of people h ve been talking about miranda, the public safety exception. i don't want to spend a lot of time on that. but, you know, when the police announced that the public threat was over, once dzhokhar was taken into custody, doesn't that suggest that the public safety exception doesn't kick in, or has been solidified? >> the public safety exception is in no way applicable in this case. that was for a situation where there was a gun in a public place and the police needed to know where it was. they asked the guy they just caught where's the gun before where was the gun? >>> they asked where is the gun. >> be that as it may you have a public defender in boston who is chomping at the bit to appoint a federal judge to defend the suspect. you could reassign a public defender is he or sheable to come in and say i don't want you talking to my client? >> he or she can say that. it's not going to stop this trying to do is to collect intelligence. i'm sure that if that's what they're trying to do, they will simply continue to do it, and gather only
, they suspended his miranda rights for a 48 hour period and decide whether or not to seek the death penalty -- listen to this from last night as well. >> this is still an active and ongoing investigation. we're going to be reviewing all of the evidence. before that kind of a decision is made in terms of whether or not to seek the death penalty, you review all of the evidence and it's a very thoughtful, long process that is engaged and it's the attorney general of the department of justice that makes that final decision. >> martha: all right. so there you have that. let's bring in fox news legal analyst peter johnson, jr. peter, welcome. >> how are you? >> martha: that's the u.s. attorney on this case in boston. she says it's too early to talk about death penalty. >> i was really surprised and disturbed as an american and as a lawyer in watching that last night. you couldn't think of a more weak insip mid remark that she was making. the charges that will be filed in this case, i haven't seen them, but i can approximate what they are -- are death penalty charges under federal law, including u
, should dzhokhar tsarnaev be treated as a criminal, or treated under the miranda rule and read his rights and given a lawyer or treated as enmyth combatant with no such protections? >> i believe strongly the former. that is the only legal way to proceed. i do not believe under the military commission law that she is eligible for that. it would be unconstitutional to do that. one of the great things in america we come together at times of trial. i very much regret the fact that there are those that want to precipitate debate whether he's enemy combatant or whether he is a terrorist, murder, et cetera. federal law, we have had 435 terrorist convictions. under federal law. we had 100-plus arrests. maybe half a dozen under the military commission. this is clear to me that the course that can be taken, the high value interrogation group. they are skilled and they know how to do this. the miranda right can be read at a later time. he has reportedly been shot through the throat, he is incubated and he can't talk now. there is time to do the investigation, to make a clear assessment and move from
as a criminal, read his miranda rights and have his right to a lawyer, or should he be treated as an enemy combatant with no such protections? >> i believe very strongly the former. i believe that's the only legal way to proceed. i do not believe, under the military commission law, that he is eligible for that. it would be unconstitutional to do that. let me say this, chris. one of the great things about america is that we come together at times of trial. i very much regret the fact that there are those that want to precipitate a debate over whether he's an enemy combatant or whether he is a terrorist, a murderer, et cetera. federal law, we've had 435 terrorist convictions under federal law. we've had 100-plus arrests. there have been maybe half a dozen under the military commission. it is really very clear to me that the course that can be taken -- you've got the high value interrogation group. they're skilled. they know how to do this. the miranda right can be read at a later time. he has reportedly been shot through the throat. he's intubated. he can't talk now. so there is time to do t
, survived. he's an american citizen. natural i naturalized 9/11 of last year. should he be given miranda rights? should he be treated as an enemy combatant? that debate has started. give me the facts, first, what they'll do. >> this administration has made a policy decision here. first, that's number one. secondly, he cannot be tried as an enemy combatant in a military tribunal because that law was changed by the national defense authorization act of 2012 that says you can't do that to an american citizen. what some advocates, republicans, are saying such as lindsey graham are -- we understand, they say, we understand he's going to be tried in civilian court but start the questioning -- treat him as an enemy combatant under the law of war. question him by intelligence people. get all the intel you can. then turn him over to the civ civilian authorities. that's what they advocate. that's not going to happen, the administration has decided. he'll be questioned first by this special group set up in the last couple of years in terror cases called the high value detainee interrogation group,
of public safety exception before you give him his miranda rights, all that talk of naming him as an enemy combatant, all of that is moot right now. they've gone forward with the official proceedings. >> well, they may have used the public safety exception, and apparently they were using it to question him, and he responded in some way given his medical condition. but certainly now that he has a lawyer, that period, however long it was, is over. and you're right, the enemy combatant thing was a nonstarter from the never going to happen. this is a criminal case in federal court in massachusetts, and that's where it will stay until it's resolved one way or another. >> it's going to take a while. thanks very much, jeffrey. much more on what's going on in this boston investigation coming up here in "the situation room" 0. >>> also, another terror plot released today, new information. canadian authorities announcing the arrest of two men believed to be part of a terror plot to attack a passenger train that may have been heading towards the united states, the plot said to have an alleged connect
okayed the suspension of the suspect's miranda rights. is that a temporary suspension? >> reporter: yes, by law it is. it's called the public safety exception to the miranda rule. normally you have to tell someone they have a right to remain silent and if you don't, then you can't use anything they tell you in court. so that's why the miranda warning is given. but there is an exception. you don't have to do it if there's a possible threat to public safety. and here obviously there's a concern about whether there are potential accomplices. investigators say they haven't found any. or other explosives. they say they haven't found any of those either but that's what they want to ask him. and this exception probably begins to expire the moment you invoke it so it's probably no good for more than a day or two but nonetheless they can do that. afterwards they'll have to give him his miranda warning and say whether he'll continue to answer questions. the justice department says even in very serious cases like this, most people in custody do continue to talk. >> pete, who's going to be interrog
's before he gets the miranda rights. the fact that he can't speak right now, does that push back that window of time because they're not getting anything from him? >> that's a good question that i won't speculate on without a legal background. i'll leave that one up to the master pete williams. but i can imagine there's got to be some sort of gray area there that some lawyer could look at. on that point, though, i think it's interesting, where we've gone now from, alex, is we've gone from this, all right, what exactly happened, to these real sort of questions surrounding the national security of this country, and how exactly these two individuals were able to go forward with what they ultimately accomplished. so this morning, sort of around that point, talking to folks related to the house homeland security committee, they say they really want to sort of get this investigation rolling on why these two individuals seem to have slipped through the u.s. intelligence community, especially after that information reported yesterday that the russians were concerned about the older broth
. >> gregg: we have toe concerned about miranda rights -- that is irrelevant. there is plethora of evidence and he allegedly confessed to the carjacking. so what do you want to do is fi out other planned attacks and accomplices? >> absolutely. you want to find out who was involved in a broader plan, if there is a broader plan. at were all the bombs that were thrown athe police, where were they slated for and is there anybody else lurking i the wings? the trick will be to chip to his heart and who is close to heart andse the leverage. misrepresent the facts, they will be arrested. >> gregg: the supreme court has said so. >> one thousand percent. this is the perfect scenario. all the leverage is on the side of the investigators. he has no idea. he is 19. he is dumb as rocks. he failed six out of seven classes in college. he forgott surveillance video existed in america by the bombing on monday. he is naive and impressionable. they can get to i am. >> gregg: you want to look at all electronic communications and personal property and his car. anybody he might have communicated with. >> it's ong
miranda rights? >> yes, that's my view. >> so that changes nothing in view of their ability to interrogate? >> what it changes is their ability to question him and use any statement that he makes. that they're not allowed to do. >> he is apparently claiming -- >> they don't need that in this case. they got a mountain of evidence against this guy. >> right. they have testified it seems against him and his brother for the act they perpetrated. >> correct. >> what they will i'm sure be extremely curious to find out if they can is are they part of a wider group of either like-minded individuals who have been coordinating themselves reading stuff on the internet, videos and so on, which apparently is what he's claiming. whether they're attached to anybody in chechnya, for example, or islamic fundamentalist nature, et cetera, et cetera, how far can you go in terms of eliciting that information from somebody like him in his position once he's had his miranda rights read to him as he now has? >> my view is you can go as far as you think it's productive to go. however, i don't think it's terribly p
asked if he understood what was happening. his miranda rights were read to him. they decided to read him his miranda rights. those were given to him today as well. the security here is very tight. in fact, what is interesting is, he potentially might get out of the hospital later than many of his victims that are also here recovering. greta? >> adam, in terms what have went down before he was mirandized, was he interviewed by the fbi or anybody in the last couple of days since he was taken into custody? did he give him information that they considered valuable and helpful? >> reporter: we learned a cowl of things. 1; yes, there were questions asked of him. the first few hours if not more than that, they were worried about making sure should thguy survives. he got here on friday night in pretty bad condition. he bled from injuries nearly 20 hours. he was obviously in rough condition. so the number-1 priority was to make sure he survived to get information from him. questions were asked of him before he was mirandized. they haven't said of course, they are not going to give away what he sa
. and his miranda rights were read to him. there was reporting if they weren't going to, but they decided to read him his miranda rights and those were given to him today as well. the security here is still very tight. what is interesting is he potentially might get out of the hospital later than many of his victims that are here also recovering. greta. >> adam, in terms of what went down before he was mirandized, was he interviewed by the fbi or by anybody in the last couple days since he was taken into custody? and it he give them information that they considered valuable and helpful? >> we learned a couple of things. yes, there were questions asked of him. the first few hours, if not more than that, obvious think they were making sure he survived so you had that situation. he got here friday night in pretty bad condition. he bled for nearly 24 hours and then the fire fight at the boat. the number one priority for them was to make sure he survived so they could get information from him. questions were asked of him before he was mirandized. they haven't said, of course, because it's part
with the questions out receiving miranda warnings but the only downside is that his statements may not be used against him at trial. this is not much of a risk when you consider the other available evidence including photo images of him at the scene of the bombings and his own reported confession to the victim whose car he helped hijack during the last week's terror in boston. . but if your concern is over the larger threat in who the tsarnaev brothers were and are, what they did and what they represent, then worry a lot. for starters, you you can worry about how the high-value intergage group or h.i.g., will do its work. that unit was finally put in place by the f.b.i. after so-called underwear bomber tried to blow up the airplane in which he was traveling as it flew over detroit on christmas day, 2009. and was advise of his mir and da rights. the c.i.a. interrogation program that might have handleled the interview had by then been dismantled by president obama. at the behest of such muslim brotherhood affiliated groups as the council on american islamic relations, and the islamic society of
to give him a miranda warning. >> which deals with public security threat. do investigators have a good handle, pete, on how big an arsenal they had? >> you know, we have heard conflicting things about this. we know they had a lot of finished bombs because they threw a lot of them out of the car as the police were chasing them thursday night, friday morning. they were throwing these little homemade hand grenades they had out and another pressure cooker device although it wasn't a fully finished one because we heard accounts that they lit it, which is different than the one set off on the two at the boston marathon. so they had seven, eight explosives. how many guns they had is unclear at this point. >> apparently they were using at least one or two of them in that friday night shootout. we're getting new details about how all of that went down. is it right that tamerlan got out of the car. he apparently approached police with a gun. they take him down but then he was still alive and his brother ran him over? >> that's correct. may have dragged him for a short time as well. >> presumably
to know and interrogate him at this point without reading him his miranda rights. i want you to meet a former deputy assistant director of the fbi's counterterrorism division. you handled practically every high profile case of bombing that we've seen in this country, including the unabomber case and the olympic bombing. thanks so much for being with us. >> good morning, jamie, you're welcome. >> we had chance to talk in the middle of the night the other night. >> we did. >> now we can reflect. we have the suspect in custody. it seems to me this is a huge investigation still, even though there's tons of evidence. you have multiple crime scenes, multiple devices, and a million questions. what will the fbi want to know first? >> well, now the investigation really gets underway, and we talked last night in the middle of the night about the search for the subjects, but now we're really going to focus in on how did these people live? how did they exist? what were they doing in the months and the years preceding these bombings, and particularly in the weeks and days before they actually com
with american citizens. it allows the justice department to delay reading a suspect his miranda rights if doing so is in the interest of -- quote -- "public safety." the administration had rightly invoked this public safety exception in the case of the boston suspect which provided our national security professionals a discreet period of time to gather intelligence from the suspect without the presence of his lawyer. however, soon after questioning him this way, the administration recently reversed itself and read the suspect his miranda rights. in doing so, the administration, in my view, gave up a valuable opportunity to lawfully and thoroughly question the suspect for purposes of gathering intelligence about potential future terrorist plots. whether we will be able to acquire such information has now been left entirely at the discretion of the suspect and his lawyer. put simply, the suspect has been told he has the right to remain silent, and if he doesn't want to provide intelligence, he doesn't have to. is this a responsible balance between a citizen's rights and our national security? the
administration has agreed to delay a reading of his miranda rights under a public safety exemption, secretary of defense chuck hagel has not seen evidence to link the bombings to terror groups. scrutiny turns to the fbi who reportedly questioned the older brother tamerlan in 2011 at the request of a foreign government. this is so interesting. of russia. the fbi told the a.p. despite interviewing him and relatives they did not find any activity. the agency dropped the ball. richard, i wonder if there is going to be a lot of questions and maybe even hearings out of this or what comes to mind just knowing those basic facts? >> there probably will be hearings of the fbi whether it learned more or could have done more. critics say that is monday morning quarterbacking. it ought to be about what we were talking about, what can we do to prevent or identify young people who are radicalized and how did we respond and how what did we learn about lockdowns. as the military would say it ought not to just focus on fbi. it's much bigger and much broader. we have to learn a lot from this. the reason is this
. they didn't give a miranda warning so the aclu is shouting about that. and of course, well-known southern bell lindsey graham, why isn't he being treated as an enemy combatant? that one to me -- >> what about benghazi? >> shut up. >> stephanie: i'll always have benghazi. it is my terror. no. >> i would never go thirsty again. i'll have another mint julep thank you. >> stephanie: the legal expert i heard this weekend said this is a nonstarter to treat him as enemy combatants. did he a crime on u.s. soil. >> peter king said this. >> i believe -- should be portrayed as enemy combatants. senator mccain, senator graham, senator ayotte, there are so many questions unanswered so many potential links to terrorism here. the battlefield is now in the united states. i believe he is an enemy combatant. ultimately, he will be tried in a civilian court and the statements taken from him cannot be used against him in that trial. right now, the only links we have as much as chechnyan involvement in the islamic movement. are there other conspirators out there? where do they get the radicalization? >> he so
news tsarnaev will not be given a miranda warning when he's physically able to be interrogated after receiving medical treatment. instead, the official says the government will invoke a legal rule known as the public safety exception. that will allow investigators to question tsarnaev without first advising him of his right to remain silent and be afforded legal counsel. president obama used his weekly address today to praise law enforcement and those involved in tracking tsarnaev down. >> americans refused to be terrorized. ultimately, that's what we'll remember from this week. that's what will remain, the stories of heroism and kindness, resolve and resilience, generosity, and love. >> authorities caught up with the suspect after a tip from a watertown resident. he was hiding in a boat parked outside a home. he is now in a boston hospital and nbc's ron allen is joining me from there. ron, with a good afternoon to you, let's get the very latest on his condition. are you getting word from the hospital or are they staying somewhat silent on that? >> reporter: absolutely silent, alex.
was provided before or after that judge/magistrate was there and r read him his miranda rights? the right to remain silent and the right to have an attorney? >> sources have indicated to us that was part of a questioning that they did under the -- fbi agent does under a national security exemption, before he was assigned counsel. they had the ability in the interest of public safety exception to be able to ask questions, were there additional coconspirators, where and were there additional explosives. the source of things you want to know immediately in order to protect the public. presumably base wanted on what we are hearing, those are the questions they asked and the kinds of responses prior to the first appearance yesterday. >> that would fit in with the public safety exception in the there a in providing the miranda rights to this criminal defendant as he now is, charges have been read to him. fran, we'll stay in close touch with you, fran townsend. much more from boston in just a moment. other news that we're watching as well. the fbi, back in washington, up on capitol hill, lawmake
a former federal prosecutor. we now that dzhokhar, suspect number two, has been read his miranda rights. sow won't be designated as an enemy combatant. but if he was labelled an enemy combatant, he wouldn't have been entitled to a lawyer and a jury trial. they could have asked him a lot of other questions without a lawyer present that may or may not be relevant to national security. now why did they make this decision not to go for enemy combatant status? do they think they have so much evidence in this case that they can go ahead with the civilian jury trial and they don't need to hide behind enemy combatant? >> i think that is certainly part of it. it does look like an overwhelming body of evidence. more than that, they thought they could get the immediate information they needed by the miranda exception, the public safety exception so they could make sure the public was safe. there accident seem to be an constitution aal basis to treat someone that commits a crime like this on our soil. the supreme court has upheld treating an american, the american taliban hamdi captured in afghanis
are told he had not been given his miranda rights. do you have any sense of whether he has this morning or how soon it will be before he does receive them? >> the -- the decision not to read miranda rights was made by the federal officials. this is a unique clause to the terrorism law that we've not dealt with at the local level before. so, we are standing by and watching that at this point in time to see how that develops. but, the lawyers are involved in the decision, and certainly we're very anxious to talk to him, and the investigators will be doing that as soon as possible. >> commissioner over the weekend i heard you say you believe you found evidence your offices did you believe that these brothers were planning some kind of another attack, or at least prepared for it. tell us about that. >> the two suspects were armed with handguns at the scene of the shoot-out. and there were multiple explosive devices, including a large one that was similar to the pressure cooker device that was found on boylston street. i saw that with my own eyes. i believe that the only reason that someone
question him about his guilt or innocence, he's entitled to his miranda rights and a lawyer. but we have the right under our law -- i've been a military lawyer for 30 years, to gather intelligence from enemy combatants. and a citizen can be an enemy combatant. he is not eligible for military commission trial. i wrote the military commission in 2009. he cannot go to military commission. >> so a civil trial no matter what. right. >> in my view a civil trial, it should be a federal trial. >> right. and senator schumer, i know you agree this should go to a federal court. i want to quick read you something that one of your colleagues said. this is from senator carl levin, the chairman of the armed services committee. and in response to senator graham and others saying this man needs to be treated as a terrorist, this is what senator levin said. i am not aware of any evidence so far that the boston suspect is part of any organized group let alone al qaeda, the taliban or within of their affiliates. in the absence of such evidence, i know of no legal basis for his detention as an enemy combatan
the question this is exactly the whole issue going back to the miranda, if he had the public safety concern of what were those explosive devices intended for? that's one of the reasons they wanted to talk to him or one of the things thaw wanted to talk to him about at the time before they realized how severely hurt he was. it absolutely proves the point there could have more more attacks planned or another person who was a part of it who maybe at the last minute didn't do it. another reason to think there was more planned is maybe that's why they didn't kill themselves at the time of the marathon attack. they wanted to live to attack another day. >> jeff, somebody must have trained them. can you learn to build a bomb by yourself just by going to the internet and going out there, go to a home depot and buying this kind of stuff? >> you could try to learn, but what you would certainly want to do is rehearse. you don't want to go through the operational energy that it would take to mount an attack like at the marathon without having a fair degree of confidence that your device is going to work
without being given his miranda rights as a matter of public tors are looking overseas for answers specifically want to know more about the older tsarnaev, the brother, who recently went to russia and how that might have changed him. abc reporter is in dagestan where the family has roots. >> reporter: last year, tamerlan tsarnaev traveled here to his old home in a region home to an islamist uprising. investigators want to learn if it was during that trip he became radicalized. family who saw him then, told us they saw no signs of extremism. there was no feeling that he could be, his aunt said, it's not possible. she showed us photos of the suspects as young boys. they were very kind boys, she says. tamerlan came here to renew his passport. the aunt says he stayed to train as a boxer. she said he prayed at the mosque on fridays but denied they fought over religion. we would debate with him. but not fighting. tamerlan spent six months and visited chechnya three times to visit family and also choosing to fly home from the chechen capital. younger brother, dzhokhar was expected to visi
about miranda rights and whether a terrorist or accused terrorist is supposed to have their miranda rights read to them. do you know if they actually read them the miranda rights? >> i don't know yet. presumably that may happen before there are charges. but there is a public safety exception where they can delay reading him his rights. as you know, there are all these calls to try him as an enemy combatant as opposed to within the criminal justice system, which seems to be what the obama administration will do. after all, he is a u.s. citizen. he carried out the crime on u.s. soil. and there doesn't seem to be a whole lot of legal basis to try him as enemy combatant, which is not to say there aren't going to be more calls particularly from the right to do just that. >> when in theory you have so much evidence on american soil, why tarnish the prosecution by going enemy combatant. if you have no backlash from anybody who says you didn't do it the right way. >> he stole a suspect. but clearly -- you've got to walk through the process, right? >> i was thinking this weekend, again, and
was given his miranda rights? >> we don't know as of yet. he has been read his miranda rights. but we don't know if this information came before or after. as you know there was a public safety exemption before he was read his miranda rights. so there was time when law enforcement had the opportunity to talk to him before he had quote/unquote lawyered up. but we don't know yet whether or not this information came before he said he understood his rights, or after. >> all right, jake tapper, terrific reporting. great to have you here this morning. >> thanks, john. >> don't miss "the lead" every day at 4:00. we're also learning more this morning about -- we're learning more this morning about criminal complaints against tsarnaev detailing step by step how the deadly attack on the boston marathon unfolded. our coverage continues this morning with miguel marquez outside best israel deaconess medical center right here in boston. good morning, miguel. >> good morning, john. this is the criminal complaint that contains what we expect are the first charges. we'll see many more against mr. tsarnaev.
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